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View Full Version : The unprocessed child... some thoughts



Sarasvati
26-06-2009, 04:41 PM
I am reading the unprocessed child atm (thanks Ayla!)

I was nodding along to a lot but I've come up against some ideas I quite disagree with. Now if you've read the book she very much assumes that a lot of things are directly the result of her parenting/unschooling, whereas some of the things she assumes I tend to think it has a lot to do with a child's personality. For instance early talking is not necessarily a result of not talking baby talk (and late talking doesn't mean you talk baby talk) but it comes across that way in her book. (That she believes her daughter's early talking came from a lack of baby talk in their interactions).

But the stuff I was quite surprised about was that 1) a child should have their own sacred space, free of siblings. The idea is if you cannot afford a house with enough rooms that each child has a room, then the room should be at the very least partitioned.

I think this is a very western-centric view. While I agree it's nice for all people to have a sacred space to call their own, I don't think that has to be a bedroom. I had a room of my own but my sacred space was the jetty out the back. I went out there when I was sad or angry, to centre myself and calm down. I still miss that jetty. I think that in some families there is a need to allot private spaces, but in others there is no need. In other cultures room sharing is such a normal thing and I daresay they don't feel they suffer for it unless it is painted as abnormal or substandard. Thoughts?

The second thing was about chores. She basically said that she didn't believe in making her daughter do chores. Now I also agree with this. However I don't see that my job is to clean, cook, pick up after, etc, the entire family. She said she learned to clean by observing her mother (however she had chores she had to do)... the feminist in me screamed "what about your father!!?" And then she went on later to say that both her and her daughter suffer from an inability to put things away, and her daughter admitted she hated mess but she looked at mess and couldn't see where to start (and I understand that sooo much!) I figure it's up to me (AND their father) to provide tools for tackling mess, and that doesn't just include me doing stuff while the children watch. It means getting them involved with helping, as long as they aren't in the middle of something interesting. Chatting about ways I find that help to keep things tidy (um, when I figure those things out). So my children don't express a frustration to me when they are older that they feel overwhelmed by housework and don't know where to start. Just as unschooled children learn maths and science through living, shouldn't they learn about mundane things like tidying up after themselves through living? Shouldn't we also be showing our children that we are not there to just pick up after them?

Her argument is that we chose to have children, therefore we should do what needs doing. If you choose to live on a farm, YOU chose it, not your kids, therefore kids shouldn't do anything around the farm that they don't want to do. Again I think this is unrealistic. Would you ask the parents to give up a farmlife because the kids don't want to help out (and presumably if the parents did everything ther would have no time to spend with their children?)

I am aware the housework stuff is SUCH a fine line. I think of all the men I know who do no housework because their mothers did everything for them and their partners take on that role. I think of women (like myself) who have struggled to do their share of housestuff; not just because mum did everything, but because the father figure did nothing. Because we had chores that we hated (I rarely dust because it was one of my chores). When I moved in with a guy I didn't see it as my job to do housework, and he didn't either, and it didn't get done. It took us YEARS to figure out what worked for us. And now it's an organic process (though sometimes I have to prod him to do more). I think making housework an organic process that includes the kids is preferable to mum doing everything with the reasoning that "you made the choice to have them, they have important things to do" (implication that I haven't got important things to do??).

Anyway would LOVE to hear other people's thought as these things have obviously challenged me. I must admit I think a lot of her assumptions are based on having one child, if she'd had more she might have been less rigid in her thinking about what "caused" her daughter to be a certain way.

Ceres
26-06-2009, 07:36 PM
I am nodding along with agreement.
I believe that every person in the house has a responsibility to maintain it. My 5 yr old does basic things like put his dishes in the sink and his clothes in the washing basket. It's preparing him for LIFE. I get that "I'm not here to be everyone's slave" feeling sometimes. I know it was my choice to have a family and I've made the 3 million sacrifices that the choice brings with it but I don't want to raise a son who feels entitled to be looked after for his whole life.
I think that having a space of your own is desirable but perhaps not a necessity. Many families with lots of children or small houses won't have this, and looking outside Australia it's pretty rare in many parts of the world to have a home where the bedrooms aren't shared.

cgull
28-06-2009, 10:46 PM
YK, if I'd tried to pull that argument on my parents - "I didn't choose to be born into this family so why should I have to help with the chores" - I reckon my parents would have responded with something like, 'well you chose to eat this meal/ wear those clothes/ sleep in that bed/ whatever, so you can help clean them up!" And I think they'd have a fair point.

"They have important things to do." Yes, they do. I believe those important things can be summed up as 'learn how to be adults who can function in the society they've been born into' - which includes getting along with other adults and children, which includes appropriate self-care and sharing of tasks with other members of the household. And politely assisting when guests.
And I think our important task as parents is to help them along the road to becoming healthy, caring, positive functioning adults. Which means including them in all the tasks of the home - in a gentle, respectful, supportive, developmentally appropriate way. THAT is the responsibility we took on when we chose to have children. Aargh, what were we thinking????

As for sacred space, my older neighbour was telling me the other day how she slept in a double bed with her sister until she left home at 18. Doesn't seem to have done her any harm. It is so easy to forget and think that the excesses of modern, Western life are normal, in-built needs. I have an ongoing discussion with myself about what the minimum space our family needs to live in would be, and whether we might find ourselves surprisingly happy in a caravan...

Tinkr
08-09-2009, 04:12 PM
I really agree with you.
Having a personal space is great but it doesn't need to be bedroom space, or be shut off from the rest of the family.
If one of my kids are feeling grumpy or just want to be alone, I just tell the other child exactly that and organise for them to do something else away for that child.

Everyone does chores in our family, kids clean up the toys, make beds, put dirty dishes in the sink etc. If they are capable of doing it they do it. When they are older there will be more chores for them to do but for now they do enough (they are 5 and 3) much more than kids we know.
This is life skills, the most important 'lesson' in the unschool curiculum imo. How can they expect to leave home and be able to function as adult if they are pampered and waited on hand and foot all their childhood?

Harmony
09-09-2009, 01:40 AM
How can they expect to leave home and be able to function as adult if they are pampered and waited on hand and foot all their childhood?Exactly! I remember my mum telling me that another teacher in her school (my godmother actually!) discovered that some 15 year old boys/young men had never even made themselves a sandwich, because their mothers had done it all for them. She took them to the school kitchen/canteen and taught them - they couldn't even remember buttering bread before :shock

battlecrumpet
09-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Haven't read the book, but agree with you re the housework thing Sarasvati. I encourage Caelan to take part in the house stuff - not only stuff he naturally enjoys (like cooking) but also stuff he needs to learn to do whether he likes it or not (like cleaning up). Basic life skill - and will also prepare him to pull his weight in an equal relationship when he's an adult.

I try to make it more enjoyable for him though by singing a cleaning up song, or talking about how I enjoy having his help to clean up; also sometimes appeal to his self interest when there's heaps of mess that needs tidying e.g. "if I have to spend all my time cleaning up your toys, by myself, then I'll have less time to play with you. But if you help me, then I'll be able to play with you sooner".

None of this works all the time but DH and I were sick of having a house that looked like a huge bombsite and tripping over toys (now it just looks like a minor bombsite instead :)

Jasmine
10-09-2009, 06:28 PM
Sounds like an interesting book :).

1) Sacred space- I agree it doesn't have to be inside or in the bedroom. Encouraging communication surrounding one's need for space is helpful for our young ones. I can imagine that having some areas in the house that are safer from tiny hands when building that Amazing Tower would be useful.

2) Tidying- I think some of this has to do with personality, not just what we teach our kids. I have a 3 year old who helps out of interest and I role-model seperating my needs from his. We talk about tidying and I try to take a different attitude (like TCC discusses) by making it entertaining and by not segregating Play Time and Work Time. I don't know what approach I will take as time goes on. At this point though, I don't see how one could make a child do something against their will without being punitive?

Beatrice
10-09-2009, 06:39 PM
B and I have arrived at a point where she does stuff I ask her to do because I don't ask her to do stuff she doesn't want to do :lol I figure that my mother tried going the punitive route and it just made me less likely to want to do housework, whereas the stuff which i just did because I didn't mind doing it and it didn't need to be enforced (my own laundry) I still don't mind doing.