"Overachievers" and unschooling

[Sarasvati]

My disclaimer first up is I HATE the term "overachiever". I've been accused of it though, and I think most people understand what it means.

My concern with homeschooling is the value I place on results. I am intensely proud of my academic achievements. I have always been scared of my reactions to a child that doesn't find learning as easy as I did/do. Obviously I don't want to react negatively, but sometimes I find myself getting impatient with Kira and it seems like if I homeschool, this might be something I need to look out for.

How hard is it to unschool as someone who values those high marks? Logically I know they mean nothing in the real world, but I still crave them for me. How do I let go for my children's sake?

[Janet]

I was a massive overachiever at uni because I got praised for it. It was like having Daddy praise me. Great basis for self motivated success, hey? Luckily I came to that conclusion and removed myself. :lol The thing for me about homebased learning is that I'm not doing it, my children are :) Deschooling is something I suspect many of us will continue doing as our children's ages, stages and learning choices challenge the ingrained notions of which we're not even fully aware, yk? How about starting with some deschooling for you and seeing how you feel after that? :kotc

[Aurora]

I was the same, aiming high at school for the praise and rewards Id receive. Although I think so many of us are in this boat, trying to undo years of praise, punishments etc. But we have the benefit of hindsight- we see how damaging it is and how it affects you as an adult. Although it may still be difficult to stop seeking approval from others in our own lives, it seems easier to make that conscious effort to avoid putting our kids through it.

Alfie Kohn's books are great resources to me at the moment, and I imagine they will be for a long time!

[Sarasvati]

How do I deschool myself? It's such a complex thing... in high school, getting stupidly high marks was hard because it put so much pressure on me, At uni I LOVED it. Once I got my first 7 I just wanted MORE. I still would love to get a PhD just to rub it into people who look down on me because I'm "just a mum". Stupid reason to want one hey?

The theme I get is that while marks at high school are undesirable, uni is ok. It's good to do well at uni. Because you opt into uni, or something? Argh I don't know LOL.

[Janet]

By the time she's at uni (or not) you won't be getting much input into what she does, I imagine, so she'll be safe from it even though by then you'll probably have unpacked it! There are some great deschooling articles around but I think the more reading you do around natural learning and the more you're immersed in it, the more of that extraneous artificially produced stuff will slough off. Just like it does when we start out all fresh faced in birth stuff and then after a few years we find normal hospital birth as bizarre as moon walking because we've moved so far beyond how that's normal in this society.

[Quickening]

Maybe it will help if you take the time to observe Kira doing stuff on her own initiative and start to see how it is learning. Like with our kids, DP didn't really understand how they could "learn" math without being taught, yet when he saw them say they wanted their toast cut up in SEVEN pieces, he started to see them constructing an understanding for maths. It is easy to work out what number they're on because they'll ask for it repeatedly at breakfast :D

[Ayla]

Lol Lisa, that's great! Breakfast maths :D


Deschooling is something I suspect many of us will continue doing as our children's ages, stages and learning choices challenge the ingrained notions of which we're not even fully aware, yk? How about starting with some deschooling for you and seeing how you feel after that?

That reaffirms to me why it's important for me to be looking into home ed now even though I don't have any "school aged" children :)

[Sarasvati]

Ah see that's where it's hard... Kira doesn't initiate much. She doesn't usually have a burning desire to find out about stuff. I think this is why I get worried about natural learning... I wonder if maybe I will need to very gently guide her until she becomes interested in things. She would be happy to just sit and watch TV, or play on the computer, or jump on the trampoline all day.

[Melaleuca]

I have loved reading this thread.

I finally talked to DH last night about home schooling (I had been holding off until I felt like I had read enough/talked to enough people/started to find answers to his anticipated fears). Like a hubby who finds evidence of an affair via emails on a shared computer, he had seen some links I had open on unschooling!

The discussion started off pretty badly (he said: why can’t we have normal kids at a normal school?) but I was able to pinpoint his fears and talk about solutions. I think we ended the convo with me saying we have 2 1/2 years to explore the issue and work through our fears. Hooray!

Anyway, this morning he was still grumpy about it all (told me I am insane - I said I've never felt saner!). He said he loved school, loved getting high marks and medals and awards (I was thinking about this thread!). I stopped him and said - but how did that help you find a job that brings you joy? It didn't.

Then I read an article this morn in last weekend's Good Weekend magazine (from the Sydney Morning Herald) called "The Gilded Cage". It was amazing - all about young lawyers (DH is a lawyer) who were high achievers at school and their disillusionment with their lack of work/life balance working for big firms (DH doesn't work for one of these, he works for govt). The article talked about the "nexus between the achievaolic student culture and the workaholic professional one". "Through high school, many high achievers learn to take pleasure in collecting accolades - winning academic prizes, captaining sports teams and furthering extracurricular talents - and, in the process, they develop the tendencies that will make them so well suited to long hours in the office, and become accustomed to the structured rewards this life offers. For mark monkeys who have learnt to judge their value against their peers based on exam scores, its a small and natural step to make similar judgements based on salary".

Last night i said to DH that I def want our girls to be financially secure, but to be so by doing things that bring them joy. In my reality, these two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. I told him a quote I saw the other day that goals are just dreams with time lines.

Anyway, loving this thread!

[Sarasvati]

Oh wow Melaleuca! So much food for thought there...

[Quickening]

Wow, I want to see that article. It certainly sounds like my parents. They are massive workaholics and can be seen in the office on the weekend even though they don't always HAVE to be there.

[Currawong]

M, I'd love to read that article. I did a search for it but to no avail. Could you pass on the details or a link? Ooh, just remembered, I could ask my mum and dad to keep their paper.

[Melaleuca]

I looked b4 I posted, searching for the title & author and also looking on the SMH site. There doesn't seem to be a link. I reckon best bet is trying to get a copy.

[Sarasvati]

I've been thinking more...

I want to share a fear I have. When I was in high school, I had a friend, I loved her to bits. She was a very creative person, but not at all academic. Her mother was a teacher, very intelligent woman. Her daughter struggled with the academic type subjects, and wasn't a big reader... I always thought I would find that HARD if I was her mother. Now of course I wonder if, as a teacher, she maybe put too much emphasis on academics, maybe she tried too hard and my friend rebelled? I don't know. But I really need to unpack this more. I am mostly completely accepting of Kira how she is, she is not the most "advanced" of her friends and that is completely cool (I don't actively compare, no, but it's not hard to see the differences in some areas - which, granted, are becoming less as they grow older) but at times I do get frustrated with her. I think deep down I am afraid - either of the actuality, or my handling of it - of having a child who is completely uninterested in critical thinking/academic thinking/reading etc... as I said in the other thread, there is a good measure of ego tied up in our childrens' intelligence and/or achievements... and I think if we homeschool, it reflects more on me, than if I chucked her in school. So I probably need to let go of several things. I think mostly I worry that I will put too much pressure on her, the way my friend's mum may have put on her (my friend's mum LOVED me, and I think my friend was aware of the comparisons her mum probably made) to be "smart"... I'm rambling! Maybe some buddhism ;).