Writing and natural learning

[Kezia]

OK I am going to apologise in advance for being a pita. But I am actually working through all my isshews and making progress, so please bear with me and I'd appreciate if you can share your suggestions.

This week's freak out is to do with writing. I have successfully got past "what if they never read?" and "what about maths?" :lol, but writing is bugging me because ds5 doesn't do it properly. What I mean by that is he refuses to use the "correct" pen/pencil grip, preferring instead to hold it in his fist like a baby would. He can hold it properly, but won't because he says it's uncomfortable. (I think it's probably just a little strange feeling because he's not used to it. He has never had any fine motor skills problems, in fact he was picking up tiny objects earlier than most babies.)

Way back last year, he was going to group therapy where they would give the kids "homework" to practice their skills, but we didn't force him do the homework because he hated it so much and we'd have had to bribe/threaten him to get him to do it. Occasionally he would decide he wanted to do it, but not often. He was also never keen on drawing. Because he disliked doing any drawing/writing, we didn't bother to make him hold the pen right for fear of putting him off trying altogether.

Anyhow, he has finally developed a little bit of interest in drawing and writing, but he still won't hold the pencil properly, and then he gets extremely frustrated because he can't maneovre it the way he wants to. I'm wondering whether he will ever "get it" if we leave him to his own devices, or whether this is a case of intervention being possibly helpful.
If we trust him on this like on everything else, will he one day wake up and find that his desire to write or draw exactly what he wants overcomes his desire to hold the writing implement in his fist? Or would he have done it by now if he was going to (his sister, 3, has been using the "correct" grip ever since she first picked up a crayone, didn't even need to be shown how)?

[Sarasvati]

If he's getting frustrated with not being able to manoeuvre it then he'll probably eventually see the benefit in the other way of holding it. If he gets really frustrated you could always suggest the other way, and then leave it up to him. He'll get there.

[Blossomtime]

Hard one Kezia. I never held the pen properly until about grade 6. I found a hybrid way of holding it :lol, somewhere between a fist and a proper pen grip. Things that were tried included an ergonomic plastic grip that you slide over the pencil to get used to the correct grip (this helped but hurt after a while), a fatter pencil and different shaped pencils. Maybe one of those Lyra chunky triangle pencils might encourage a different grip?

I think in the end what worked with me was time and people encouraging me to try a few different grips... like holding a builders pencil with my thumb on top for drawing, or chalk/crayons sideways .

[Kezia]

Actually that's encouraging that you learnt at a later age Bloss. I suspect all these worrying pronouncements about there being windows of opportunity for things are a bit of a load of bollocks. You hear them so often, eg "You better get baby eating food because if she doesn't start by six months you'll have missed the developmental window" (hello? why are all those later eating babies not dead from starvation?).

[Currawong]

I was a bit worried about ds's pencil grip (he's 4.5) but about six months ago he spontaneously started to hold it correctly.

When I first noticed him holding it in his fist, I gently suggested a couple of times that he could hold it another way but he insisted on holding it that way. I decided to completely back off and leave him to it. I had a feeling if I pushed it that he would stop drawing altogether (he's not very interested in the arts :blueroll).

I spent a bit of time drawing next to him to model the 'correct' way and that could have had a positive effect but it also could have been chance that one day he just picked it up correctly and he found it easier so continued that way.

Blossomtime, I wonder if you would have self-corrected your grip a lot earlier if there wasn't such a fuss made over it?

My suggestion for you, Kezia, is to back off and not mention it again for I do believe if left alone he will find it for himself. Maybe do some drawing next to him or organise for him to draw alongside other children regularly. Try to minimise standing up painting or chalk-drawing or Magnadoodle sort of stuff because that encourages fist gripping IMO.

Maybe when he gets frustrated and you feel like you need to respond, you could say something like, 'Oh, you're frustrated because you'd like to have more control of the pencil' - something non-judgmental like that that identifies the problem but doesn't try to solve it for him.

Anyway, that's my five and a half cents :D

ETA: when I said 'back off' I didn't mean that you were being heavy with him, I just meant to let it be. He's probably feeling low about it anyway because of extra work he had to do last year. (??)

[ThirdArmBabySlingProject]

5 is supremely young. I'd suggest immersing yourself in natural learning material so that you can 'normalize' natural learning instead of basing your expectations on what is 'normal' (and often possible, but with negative effects) for trained/taught children in an institutionalized setting ;-)

[Kezia]

E, I agree with you, and I wouldn't be at all worried if he decided not to read and write until 10, 12 or whatever. We don't sit him down and make him do it, in fact we aren't making him do any bookwork/seat work/whatever they call it with him. But he wants to write, and what concerns me is that he is "practising in errors", similar to when someone self taught learns the "wrong" technique for their sport or musical instrument and it bites them on the bum later on.

Currawong, that's an interesting point about things like painting encouraging fist grip. I've actually been letting him paint a lot because he enjoys it and I figured it must be good if he likes some kind of visual expression. Do you think painting at the table instead of the easel and using smaller brushes might help? Although I suppose we could feed the painting urge with finger painting, footprints, potato stamping etc.

[Ayla]

My question in return is why does it matter how he holds his pencil? :) I held my pencil the "wrong" way right up until I hit university. I was still able to write regardless of the grip on my pencil. I only changed to the "right" way when I hit uni because the way I gripped my pen meant I couldn't take notes fast enough as the lecturer spoke so I changed grips to accomodate. I reckon just leave him be and he'll work out what suits him best :)

[ThirdArmBabySlingProject]

QUOTE:" I agree with you, and I wouldn't be at all worried if he decided not to read and write until 10, 12 or whatever. We don't sit him down and make him do it, in fact we aren't making him do any bookwork/seat work/whatever they call it with him. But he wants to write, and what concerns me is that he is "practising in errors", similar to when someone self taught learns the "wrong" technique for their sport or musical instrument and it bites them on the bum later on."

I hear that and was responding in that context. The reason my suggestion was so....suggestive, I guess, was because I personally fell into all the 'what if' holes like the ones you mention (and more) based on what was seen to be 'normal' and expected around me and, if only I'd had access to the reading matter/resources/people I've uncovered over the last few years eighteen years ago, our path would have been much smoother, joyful and free.

And I'm wishing that for you ;-)

[Kezia]

That's why I like to get your input E :) Plus it's nice to know that someone who comes across as so awesomely relaxed and confident once had the same sort of worries ;)

L, it's not that I want him to do it "right" just for the sake of it, it's more that he gets frustrated to the point of almost having tantrums because he can't do anything legible.

Hmmm, maybe I should take a calligraphy course if nice writing is so important to me.

[Blossomtime]

Blossomtime, I wonder if you would have self-corrected your grip a lot earlier if there wasn't such a fuss made over it?



There was a teeny bit of defiance involved ;) Mostly though it was because it was natural for me to hold the pen that way and more comfortable (still is and I revert sometimes just for old times sake :lol).

Kezia, A gets frustrated when she can't make the letters/numbers work too, to the point of tanties. I reckon they'll all get there in the end.... A thought that occurred to me though - ever tried giving G a really tiny pencil to play with? You cant hold them in a fist, so they can be good for fine detail stuff

[ThirdArmBabySlingProject]

We were recently gifted an A framed easel with a chalk board on one side and a clipboard on the other for painting paper. The clip board slides out to reveal a white board underneath and my younger boys (ages nearly 3, 5.5 and 7) absolutely love it - particularly the white board.

This is where the 5.5 and 7 y/os do most of their writing (unprompted, but there the alphabet is printed across the top to copy ~ unfortunately in capital letters), and will sometimes ask me to write things for them to copy on there. They also have (another gift) a magnetic drawing board, where the pictures are easily wiped, where they practice letters (again unprompted).

I wonder if this may be a useful tool, and if it helps to eliviate frustration when learning/practicing because it's easy and quick to disappear any 'mistakes' (or parts of) without them more being permanently in his face (as on paper)...?

The whiteboard pens are smooth to manoevre.

As for the grip, whoever decided which way was 'correct' or 'best' ~ and how did they ever know it was 'best' for everyone? Sounds like a case of collective blind conformity to me. He'll find his groove (grip).

Apologies for the meat theme but you know the story of the woman who would cut the end of the leg of lamb before cooking and, when asked why, said it was because her mother always did it? She then asked her mother why she cut the end of, and she replied because her mother always did it. So the woman asked her grandma why. And the grandma said it was because she had such a tiny meat tray and tiny oven the leg never fitted in without cutting off the end ;-)

One size just doesn't fit all ;-)

Now, how to work out a way to wipe out my 'miss takes' as easily as with a white board rubber...

[Blossomtime]

Yes, we've been enjoying using whiteboard too. It helps avoid those tanties. ;)

[gemi_ny]

his sister, 3, has been using the "correct" grip ever since she first picked up a crayone, didn't even need to be shown how


B was the same, but at some point decided she preferred an "alternative hold". Mind you, her 'writing' ATM consists of binary code - lots of O's & 1's :lol She asks me how to write things & I try showing her how to hold the pen (texta, crayon, pencil) the "right" way, but she struggles with it.

I think the whiteboard (or blackboard) or the tiny pencil sound like good suggestions. That change might just be enough to allay his frustration?

In the end, I think he will come to it in his own time.

[Kezia]

Bher 'writing' ATM consists of binary code - lots of O's & 1's
Excellent! :lol

[Caz]

Even tho I'm a teacher, I don't care how my kids hold their pencils as long as they are comfortable and we both can read their writing. I don't even hold mine correctly. In fact, I change grip mid sentence sometimes...particularly if I'm lower down on a page.

I think modelling by you and leaving him to construct his own knowledge on how to hold the pencil for his comfort and control is the best idea. He may never do it 'correctly' but he will work out whats best for him. He just needs time.