Computer programs and unschooling

[Sarasvati]

Since Kira has started using Reading Eggs I've been thinking about how such programs fit in with the natural learning philosophy. Clearly a lot of unschoolers use online and PC-based programs, and the child is the one who instigates using the program, not the parent. But I wondered if it's really "natural" learning? Kira learned her numbers quite fast, but it was because of the stupid kiddie PC her grandma got her, not through just life learning. Watching Reading Eggs, I can see that Kira loves it, is motivated by her own desire to learn (not because of external praise or pressure), and it's obviously much more interesting than any way *I* could present the material. But at the same time it's clearly educational, designed to "teach" (or help them learn)... is it really natural learning? Because if the computer wasn't there there is no way she could learn so fast, just from observation and participation in life.

Thoughts?

[Beatrice]

I don't see that "natural learning" equals anything like "only learning from nature". I think it's about the way parents choose to involve themselves in their kids' use of the tools in their environment. Kira using an edjumacational laptop thingy to increase her learning efficiency is no different from Kira using any other tool to the limits of its efficiency in her quest for mastery. So the fact that she discovered that this was the most efficient tool to help her learn something she wanted to learn just demonstrates that she's really good at taking what she needs from her environment. And I bet that the laptop thingy got boring pretty fast when she'd achieved her aims ;)

I do think it's important to critique how we feel about our kids interacting with explicitly educational material, but that's because we've been trained to invest more importance in some learning tools over others. So that's a good habit to get out of, but not if we go too far the other way and privilege "natural" as superior to "technological".

[Ceres]

I'm with B. My natural learning approach just means that I make opportunities available to DS and he can choose from that what best meets his needs. Sometimes the computer stuff is used a lot, sometimes he's busy with writing and craft. I think it's all good. :)

[~*heket*~]

As usual, praise to Beatrice :lol

I always hated that sort of thing but since we began this journey of home educating I've started to view them differently. The other week I was looking at a poster of times tables that was for a football team :lol Everything has its' place, and even annoying american accented programmes can be handy.

[Sarasvati]

I don't view "natural learning" as learning from nature... rather learning from life. Sometimes I look at what Kira is doing and it's like a glorified flash card, but minus the adult! It's not learning from a life experience, from observing how xyz is used in living, from asking questions about things. It's learning what the person who created the program wants them to learn (maybe they learn other things too!). Don't get me wrong I make these tools available, I just question how "unschooly" it is to make them available, or even to point her to them (as she wouldn't find them without my help at this age!) Am I overthinking?

[Astarte]

I don't think you are over thinking but I do think she would find these programs with or without your help in the not too distant future.
I think Eben saw a reading eggs display in the postoffice and wanted an activity book then he sought out the website. I had to join him up (at his request) the rest he managed by himself.

[Beatrice]

Well I'm confused :lol I think I get where you're heading with the "glorified flash card", but I guess it's not an issue for me the same way. If my kids like flashcards then I'm happy to use flashcards with them :lol

K's been on Starfall a bit today but it was the first time in ages she's played it - all her attention has been on writing and learning words instead. I don't know exactly what she's getting out of Starfall. It could be learning, or downtime from learning, I'm not really able to know which it is to *her*.

B used to spend hours on Starfall before she was reading independently but she very quickly learnt which parts of the website she could get to read the story out to her, and then spent the rest of the time discovering all the different interactive bits in the pictures :lol When she wasn't interested in learning, she interacted with the program accordingly, and the fact that it was designed to help kids learn to read didn't in itself impose an expectation on her that she ought to be using it for that purpose. IYSWIM :uhh :lol

I don't think anyone *only* gets out of something what the person who designed it wants them to learn, whether it's a book or a TV program or a piece of software. K is relating to everything she interacts with through her own unique frame of reference, and I think a kid who hasn't ever really been subjected to "teaching", or who hasn't internalised the idea that some kinds of tools are better and more educational than others, is going to see something like Starfall very differently from a kid whose experiences of learning have already been influenced by school/preschool/schooliness on the part of the parent. That's why I feel comfortable allowing my kids to mediate for themselves what they get out of any of those media (well, except for TV, which is an issue for our family dynamics).

[boy0hboy]

I think that unschooling and natural learning is about learning from the tools that we have around us. And we as parents are facilitators, providing opportunities and access to resources.

Computers are part of our everyday existence as adults and almost everyone would use them in some way as part of their work as an adult. So computers are part of our natural environment - especially with mum's like us as role models! :lol And i think when our kids see us so interested in computers and they see what we can do with them it's hard for them not to have their natural curiosity aroused. And you helping her access things like Reading Eggs is just a way of helping her to explore computers at an age appropriate level.

I think unschooling is about following their lead too and letting them make decisions - she obviously enjoys it and is learning from it - so I think you should just go with it. Though I do think that computers and games in general can be addictive so when my boys are on there are time restraints - otherwise they'd just be on there all day, everyday and I don't think that's healthy!

So yep try not to think about it too much and go with it - and enjoy the peace! :)

[Sarasvati]

Yeah I think I am just a tad uncomfortable with the emphasis on education in something like Reading Eggs... although I much prefer it to say Starfall. And combined with the technology (as I can see Kira takes after her dad in liking technology) I've been struggling with it. Thanks Mary and B, the last two replies have helped address some of the doubts I've been having.